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 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)

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Günter Severloh
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:58 pm

Quote :
Guys we all know the issue with this battle was the decission in the last week to not go ahead with CC_Arad and instead go with the original
The issue as i had explained before was that we couldn't get cc to work, in terms of editing the map.
no need to bring this crap up and stick to us like were a bunch of dumb mopes who dont know WTF is going on.
If ideas are to work they need to be tested, obviously cc couldn't work cuz it wasn't tested, or not enough thought was put into it.
Either way reg RO can work if the maps are edited according to the timeline.

There needs to be a procedure here, something that we can expect everyweek if TOC for to function without issues.

* we need to know ahead of time week in advance what the map is that we are supposed to be fighting on
* 1SS, and 187th- we can edit our own maps provided we know what the map is.
* Once we edit a map we will submit the map for our gruppe so that the allieds have it as well and be able to practice on it, and yes i said practice, download the map, make sure it works, and test it out, get on the server your going to be on for the match and make sure it works, if it dont work or your having issues then make sure it is solved before the match, NOT at the time the match starts!

* Both AXis and Allies need to have their AAR completed and turned in so that the next map can be picked.
* Each gruppe should be informed ahead of time who they are fighting if it applies, what the next map is.
* keeping us informed on whats going on is going to be very important, if TOC admins cant do that then u need more help.
* setup a page for the schedule so all gruppes can read and be informed ahead of time whos fighting who, and maps.

maintain certain deadlines or it wont work.

TOC seems disorganised, we know its alot of work, i want to see it work well, as much as the others, but everyone has to give a little and do their parts.

This campaign should be as simple:

* figure out who goes where on the map
* Get a map to each gruppe
* set the match date
* Done.
this is of course if the AB mutator, and the map is on the servers, and everyone can get on the map, cuz they played the map a week in advance and they know it works. There should be no issues.

We cannot guess about whats happenign next, or what what map were going to be on.
we need to know. If theirs a match every sunday then we need information.

Its easy for units to leave this over something so simple and really stupid, its stupid cuz it shouldn't be happening.
Theres plenty of people around here in RO that can edit maps if you guys need maps edited, and so on, theres nothing to figure out here, do your part and be done with it, why TF am i having to type this shit to point it out?

Step it up
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Werner Jungmann

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:18 pm

Well said.
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:00 am

I never said anyone was a dumb mope Gunter 9or anyone else for that matter).

I was only saying that were trying to get cc involved and it didn't pan out because it doesn't work well for some people's comps.
In any case cc not taking place for awhile.
Next up concerning maps, we have been sending everyone information concerning maps and when you are supposed to have them done. It is not the job of TOC, but of a particular unit to make sure the maps are edited a week prior. Your army group was a special case because we changed the map at the last minute. My appologies. 2nd SS and 16th kp right now have a map all edited and ready to go for their match next weekend. no one is fighting a match every weekend. It goes like this...

Weekend 1:
Nothing

Weekend 2:
Africa battle
Russia south battle

Weekend 3:
Center Battle
North Battle


This allows time for units to get in practices as well as get the maps modded while AG CO's get me their units material wishlist on time. a material wishlist isn't hard.... walk through the map, make a strategy then and there and get me the information 2 weeks ahead of time so the map can be made.

I don't consider ourselves disorganized here at TOC; rather we are experimenting with different ideas right at the start of a campaign that is massive on any recent scale. So cngrats to your win axis, allies do something before germany takes moscow, and continuously be checking the forums for updates on maps, equipment and matches. Also AG/ Unit Leaders need to contact the enemy on their own time, I don't have the time to be arranging get togethers.

vr,
Werner

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{SHD}Kimball



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:56 pm

Im pretty sure we only lost 4 tanks. Any other allies remember?

We had 9 total players. I was infantry. That leaves 8 allied tankers and 2 tankers to each tank means we only drove 4 tanks. All tanks and players were destroyed. I have no idea if any allies lieft spawn again. I doubt it though.
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:09 pm

so russians lost everyone?

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Günter Severloh
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:24 pm

Quote :
no one is fighting a match every weekend
I think everyone wants to fight everyweekend.

How much time do people need to practice?
we practice everyday whether we have a map or not, why does anyone need a week or even 2 weeks for that matter?


Quote :
get me the information 2 weeks ahead of time so the map can be made.
This allows time for units to get in practices as well as get the maps modded

It dont take 1-2 weeks to figure out what map is next, it should be a day or 2 after the match that was played at most.

It takes an hour or less to edit a map, if we know the map were going to be on, why does anyone have to wait for any of the other gruppes, were not waiting for their map, its not like we all have to share a server.


If every unit is paying attention and not being lazy and turn in their reports like their supposed to after the match they have, then the next obvious step can be decided based on the timeline where each gruppe will fight next.


we need to know what map is next, the sooner we get the map and edit and decide what we want to use the sooner you get the specs of then you need to get the allies to do the same.

Have no problems with talkin with anyone to get this sped up, all this waiting is pointless.

Quote :
we are experimenting with different ideas right at the start of a campaign that is massive on any recent scale.
Thats great, but now is not the time when the campaign is under way, that should have been done ahead of time before the campaign started. go with what works and adjust later, learn from what is going on with the campaign now, you have an idea section already, you could have guys testing stuff out on the side, or even guys to volunteer to do it.

Concentrate on keeping the flow of the campaign, keeping the units happy will be about:

knowing what maps they will be on next, whether they defend or assault

the dates are obvious they should be the next sunday after the previous one
units should be practicing any time they can whether they got 16 guys or 3, they dont need a map to do that, as soon as they get the map then they can focus on their strategies for the map. which you only need at least a couple of days to go over, u can use drawing boards, use your forums ect.,

but communication here is going to be the critical component of know whats going on.

Im not pointing out ideas here im pointing out the reality of what should be done, because from our standpoint it aint working the other way. i can grow a beard in the time it takes to get a map Shocked ya give me 3 days i can grow one, seriously though not trying to be a dick here but do you see the reality of what I pointed out?
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Günter Severloh
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:33 pm

German losses:

1 PzIV F1
1 PzIII
4 Panzer crewmen

1 Artillery used

Russian losses:

1 KV1
3 BT-7
1 T-60
8 Tank crewmen
1 Infantry

0 Artillery used

this seems correct, as i was in a tank that destroyed the kv1, and 2 bt7s, our infantry took out 1 tank, and 1 infantry, and the t60 was destroyed, i know i saw it with my own eyes.

so that means u should have 1 bt7 left then, and 1 infantry carrier correct?

we lost the panzer4, adn a panzer 3, thats 4 crewman, and we used 1 art.

I know what we used and lost, we had 16 guys allies had 9, which im wondering why, arnt u guys supposed to have another unit fighting with you, cuz 9-10 guys aint going to do a whole lot, unless u got some good tactics, or strat for a map.

It should be the other way around their should be more Russians than germans like it really was, and on that note whats the problem why isn't there another unit with you guys?
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{SHD}Kimball



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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:50 pm

They all quit out and noone wants to join allies.
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:05 pm

I have the screenshots to prove that allies left spawn when they were supposed to leave the server. all you have to do is count the points on axis side.

But I will say again, allies should have only lost 4 tanks according to the rules of T.O.C. Not 5.
The allies had 9 men. That means 1 infantry and 8 tankers. That is a total of 4 tanks not 5.

Werner please check the "Ideas" section of the forums in regards to match times whenever you get the chance. Its a good idea and i think T.O.C should use it.
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{1.SS}Wolff
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:25 pm

{SHD}Kimball wrote:
noone wants to join allies.

This has been the Achilles heel of RO from day one.

Needless to say, I back Günter in everything he said and much of that was discussed last night between our 2 units before the posts were made. All I want to know is what is the next map? Even if the battles are only every two weeks at least if we knew what map we could do something with the unit. Oh and someone to fight against would be good too. :-) BTW, Gottenberg reported our losses within a few minutes after the end of the battle on Sunday.


Last edited by {1.SS}Wolff on Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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{1.SS}Gottenberg
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:02 pm

I was present at the battle and I know what was destroyed.
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:45 am

I'm marking down that the russians lost 1 kv1, 1 t60, 2Bt7's, 8 tankers, 1 inf and 0 arty.

Next topic... Gunter I don't know what your smoking on friend but everything you quoted me on and then you yourself commented on was the same idea.


Here is how things work here at TOC:
Beginning of a turn...
1) Provide dates when each side is playing and who they are playing. (Calander)
2) Update the Campaign Map to show avenues of approach as ell as the maps the attacking side has to choose from for eachterritory. (Map)
3) Attacker as quick as possible lets me know through pm where they are attacking and with what. (pm)
4) I send this information to the modder after i cross reference it with the campaign map as well as the equipment rosters. (rosters)
5) I also send the map modder information regarding desired classes, AT positions, removable/ changeable spawns, mines and capzones. (pm)
6) I supervise the AG Commanders and the map modder to make sure communication lanes are open and the map is good to go.


These tasks take more then half a week to complete, and although many people give a lot of their time to RO and this community, not evryone practices everyother day... it's just not possible sometimes. Thus having a match every weekend is idiotic and pointless. Plus Units build better cohesion amongst themselves and with others when they have joint practices and talk smack with the other side about the upcoming match. Last but not least in the real military world rehearsals are conducted several times before operations, thus it only makes since that units should be given a week or 2 to practice a map and a strategy before the real deal... This makes the realism matches fun and less chaotic.

I am always open to new ideas (my next stop is the ideas forum to read up on what ya'll are tlaking about) and sometimes i incorporate these ideas. But give this campaign the time it needs to take off the ground please because we are working very hard to bring you something very big in scale to everything else you've seen in the past.

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{1.SS}Wolff
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:52 pm

I have a simple question that requires only a yes or no answer. Will we be provided with the maps at least one full week before the actual match? Matches being on Sundays, I'd expect to have a map link(any any other necessary files) here by the previous Saturday at the latest so we have at least 1 day with the whole unit to go over tactics. Is this a possibility or not?
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:36 pm

We need to change the battle times from Sunday to any day of the week, depending on unit/clan's agreement, for future battles. clan's/unit's will have a week to decide which day the battle will be on.

I know we (axis group south) dont have a battle this weekend (march 8th) but we should expect the map to be given to us by sunday or monday giving us a week to prepare and decide when and where to play.
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MSkerke

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:23 pm

I dont know about you but I have school during the week amognst other things. Im sure alot of others wouldbnt be able to play during weekdays. Sorry if I misinterpretted all of this Razz
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:44 pm

regardless.

leaders from each unit know their activity better than anyone. finding a time when most of their unit is online and a time agreed upon with the enemy force. this would be the best route to go.

some of us, beleive it or not, actually work on weekends.

i beleive this is the route to go.
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{1.SS}Wolff
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:35 pm

OK, it's pretty basic as far as 1.SS is concerned. Hope this helps......

-We need to have the map 8 days before any battle. In other words the Saturday before any match that is scheduled for the following Sunday. We would gladly edit the maps and post the links here if needed.

-The only time we can participate in any match is Sunday afternoons New York Time.
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{SHD}Granat
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:14 am

Your requests are funny... Do u think I have map that im playing today ? No ! I think thats the Axis advantage - they mod maps and they get it first. I ussualy get map when match starts... So i would be pleased if we had map at least 2 days before match. The trouble is that we dont know where to download stuff, and all units dowload via server, which is worst. It sucks, when we hav no time to practice map. In Bondarevo we had time - nothing was changed on Arad - nope .

Don't cry axis, you are in preety good postion. We have troubles with amount of players and maps...
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:44 pm

We are in a pretty good position no doubt.

But that does not make having a scheduled battle 2 hours later any good at all. Think that is what most of us are crying about here. Even you Granat.
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:32 pm

maps to territories is coming out once I hear how this finland match goes. I will be posting the map information in the axis forum Oberkomando der Heeres. unit leaders choose the maps right in that topic and give me your requests for equipment and personnel. I expect this info back to me asap. then i'll announce all that information to the general public so the map modders can pick that shit up. No longer will just the map modder side know what the enemy will be using. This will all be public information from now on.

Toc is always changing and updating trying to figure out the best way to get these matches done. You have voiced your concerns and I have made note of them and have made changes as needed. just give me a chance to make these changes. If you want to fight on weekdays that is fine. let me know and make sure the enemy is cool with it.

vr,
Werner

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{1.SS}Wolff
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:43 pm

{SHD}Granat wrote:
Your requests are funny...

Glad you are amused. Regardless, that's what my unit will require. I sent Metalbourne the map link for Arad at least several days before the match in a PM here but never got any reply. In the end we waited 2 full hours for the Arad match to start and even at that only 1/2 the required Soviets showed up. 1.SS and 187GrnRgt are doing all we can to be patient and helpful. I'd really hate to see ToC fail, there are many good concepts here.
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Günter Severloh
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:45 pm

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maps to territories is coming out once I hear how this finland match goes
what does finland have to do with the mitte, and Sud fronts?
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:58 am

it is much easier for me if i do everything at once. they'll be available in 5 minutes from now.

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm

thanks esko. not for the post you just made but your previous one. i think that eased alot of tension amongst the T.O.C community, at least for the eastern campaign. good to hear changes can always be made.
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PostSubject: Re: 2nd Battle of Bessarabia (August 41)   Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:34 pm

no worries... map choices are availble to this AG in their forum along with new equip/personnel roster and I need info back asap.

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