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Pavel Volodnikov
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:16 pm

If we request it, the mapper should also make a one-way portal that allows our forces to instantly teleport to the enemy spawn, because that would be in the name of strategy.

As I said before, the way the mines currently are already allow a great amount of freedom. On Mannikkala I was attacked from behind and taken by surprise.
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Michael Steiner

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:44 am

Twisted Evil


Last edited by Michael Steiner on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pavel Volodnikov
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:39 am

Michael Steiner wrote:
LOL ive been left speechless. Shocked

You act as if though your the only mapper. Like i said the point has been lost.................................................................................................................................MOVING ON!

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this, but okay.
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HStrauss
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:39 am

and you have a wonderful attitude. If you would like to make all these maps please do so Cool
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Michael Steiner

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:27 pm

Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Michael Steiner on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ernst Hoffmann
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:14 pm

I have just looked at this thread and I don’t quite like what has been said and the way it is going. This is the main reason why I don’t check these forums as people can never seem to keep things cordial and to the point. It is a simple process to remove minefields and seeing as maps need to be edited for each battle anyway it would not really add to the existing work load on the map editors.
However not all maps need this the main type of map that needs it’s minefields removed are those maps which have minefields that stop you from capturing objectives in any order you want Berezina would be a good example of this. Also there are some maps like Ogeldow for instance where removing map edge minefields would give players more room to manoeuvre and not only that but they will not have to be preoccupied by a worry that in a particular flanking manoeuvre they will stray into the minefield. As for those who are worried that if the minefield that cordons off the edge of the maps might lead to people falling off then quite frankly anybody that does so is deserved of the their fate.

An admin ether needs to lock or clean this thread up and people need only post if they have something meaningful to say!

Regards
Ernst Hoffmann
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:35 pm

Agreed. This is pathetic guys.

I think we should leave the mines for now actually. Or take out the minefeilds on those maps like Berezina as posted above, but having one side tell the editor what feilds of mines they want removed could easily give away their strategy.

Minefeilds are minefeilds in realism... you just dont go there.
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LSchroll

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:30 am

Ernst Hoffmann wrote:
I have just looked at this thread and I don’t quite like what has been said and the way it is going. This is the main reason why I don’t check these forums as people can never seem to keep things cordial and to the point. It is a simple process to remove minefields and seeing as maps need to be edited for each battle anyway it would not really add to the existing work load on the map editors.
However not all maps need this the main type of map that needs it’s minefields removed are those maps which have minefields that stop you from capturing objectives in any order you want Berezina would be a good example of this. Also there are some maps like Ogeldow for instance where removing map edge minefields would give players more room to manoeuvre and not only that but they will not have to be preoccupied by a worry that in a particular flanking manoeuvre they will stray into the minefield. As for those who are worried that if the minefield that cordons off the edge of the maps might lead to people falling off then quite frankly anybody that does so is deserved of the their fate.

An admin ether needs to lock or clean this thread up and people need only post if they have something meaningful to say!

Regards
Ernst Hoffmann

Before I say anything, I would like to make it clear that I am not attacking you..

While removing mines which prevent you from capturing objectives is a reasonable request which would prove quite useful during gameplay, I do not see how it would be beneficial to remove the mines which prevent you from leaving the the boundaries of the map, sure we may have more room to maneuver, but how much more room do we really need, and at what expense?!! Why don't we just remove gravity as well so we have the endless expanse of the known universe in which to conduct flanking maneuvers?!

Ernst Hoffmann wrote:
As for those who are worried that if the minefield that cordons off the edge of the maps might lead to people falling off then quite frankly anybody that does so is deserved of the their fate.

Doesn't this even more so apply to players maneuvering into minefields? At least you know where the boundaries are with minefields and anyone who ventures too far off the map will receive a warning before exploding, so those who succumb to the fate of the minefields is even more deserving of a horrible death, are they not?!

albino
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:16 pm

I read LSchroll's post over a few times and i swear you just repeated what Hoffman said in his post. Maybe im losing my mind...

Anyways, the mindfeilds should be tight to the boundries to give warning that players are reaching the edge of the map. they shouldnt even be able to see outside of the edge because that is unrealistic... a floating peice of land in the sky.. hmm.

As i said though, if an opposing team tells the other team's editor that they need minefeilds removed for flanking purposes then they just gave away part of their strategy and that is silly.

Those big ones like Berezina though of course have to be cleared of mines.
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Pavel Volodnikov
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:31 pm

I don't know why we are persisting on discussing this "issue" in the first place. The very last thing we need is for these minefields to be reduced to the very edges, so that opposing forces can attempt to sneak at the very edge of the map each battle, taking the focus away from any possible major engagements. Is this Theatre of Conflict or a Commandos sequel? One significant problem plaguing Theatre of Conflict battles at the moment is that not enough action is being witnessed by the players. People are becoming entirely weary, and are finding that waiting two weeks for a battle only to be killed from behind without ever knowing who was there, very frustrating and not fun at all. On the Axis side, some players do not even fire a single shot. Sure, it is highly realistic, and after all this is no doubt, the most realistic of campaigns. We might as well edit out all other parts of the map except for the edges because it would then be useless space, but then I assume that would eliminate the "element of surpise" that seems to be so desperately craved. Furthermore, I do not agree in the justification of this possible action, merely because the map is simple to modify or anything of the sort. It seems that next we will be asking if we can map in additional cover for the defenders because it is not that much of a problem to add in, and by the end of the campaign, both sides will be begging for their own fortresses at each side of the map.

If anything, the minefields require you to think more strategically, as you are being challenged by their presence. They are also at the moment, far less restricting than the unedited maps. But if you want to continue on the idea that the campaign is all about winning before fun as mentioned in another thread, well, you won't have anything to win against if everyone has left from boredom and frustration.
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Werner Jungmann

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:43 pm

I've rarely ever had any problems with mines. If they killed me it was usually my fault.

The only ones I ever had a problem with was the cap related ones, especially on maps like Kurland Kessel, the Allies get a cap and the Axis troops behind them are all of a sudden cought in a minefield with no way to get out.

Most maps have them fine as they are. I think Volod brings up some good points, not the least of which is the Slippery Slope theory, first Mines then this then that and so on.

I think the most we can do is get some overheads or where the mines are and maybe cut some corners on them, I know some seem to jut a little farther out into the field then they really need to.
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LSchroll

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:10 pm

Werner Jungmann wrote:
I've rarely ever had any problems with mines. If they killed me it was usually my fault.

The only ones I ever had a problem with was the cap related ones, especially on maps like Kurland Kessel, the Allies get a cap and the Axis troops behind them are all of a sudden cought in a minefield with no way to get out.

Most maps have them fine as they are. I think Volod brings up some good points, not the least of which is the Slippery Slope theory, first Mines then this then that and so on.

I think the most we can do is get some overheads or where the mines are and maybe cut some corners on them, I know some seem to jut a little farther out into the field then they really need to.

Agreed, and to be honest I don't even know why this discussion is taking place, I think our map editors are doing an excellent job as it is.
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Wilhelm Stahlschmiedt

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:20 am

Yeah the minefields can be a bitch sometimes, but I don't think it's worth fucking around with in the editor. I don't want these engagements to just degenerate into flanking manuevers as was stated earlier. I think they're fine the way the are with some exceptions like minefields randomly appearing for the Soviet defenders on Berezina.

I think until it's a map where both sides can agree the mines are a serious issue the map should be edited accordingly.

So....


Basically what I'm saying this isn't a general problem, but a smaller problem that only needs to involve opposing sides in individual maps with the respective sides involved, not the whole community. Just let the unit leaders decide for each map if the minefields need editing.
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razyl_daz

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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:31 pm

Right.

Settled then?

We all seem to be comming to some sort of agreement here.

Werner if you have a final decision to make...

Otherwise i think we can agree that some maps do need areas of mines cleared out and unit leaders should speak with the editor if they think those areas need to be removed.

Ya? Good.
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Friedrich Werner
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PostSubject: Re: Maps and Minefields   Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:56 pm

It will be up to AG Commanders... When you are picking a map the attacker will voice any concerns he has about mines to the enemy AG CO. When a truce on the subject is made let me know and i'll post it with the battle orders.


Any future questions on the subject please send through a pm.

Thanks,
T.O.C. Management




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